Legislature(1993 - 1994)
02/12/1994 08:00 AM House STA
| Audio | Topic |
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE STATE AFFAIRS STANDING COMMITTEE
February 12, 1994
8:00 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Al Vezey, Chairman
Representative Pete Kott, Vice Chairman
Representative Gary Davis
Representative Harley Olberg
Representative Jerry Sanders
Representative Fran Ulmer
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Bettye Davis
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HB 351: "An Act relating to the issuance of permits
for the carrying of a concealed weapon and
relating to the possession of weapons."
HELD OVER
HJR 40: Proposing an amendment to the constitution
of the State of Alaska relating to the
individual right to keep and bear arms.
HELD OVER
WITNESS REGISTER
GIOVANNI TALLINO, President
Kodiak Sportsmen Association
P.O. Box 4496
Kodiak, AK 99615
Phone: 486-3043
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
CHARLES TRIPP
1820 Larch St.
Kodiak, AK 99615
Phone: 486-4229
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351.
GILBERT CROSS
Box 666
Barrow, AK 99723
Phone: 852-3455
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
DOUG SOMERS
P.O. Box 58195
Fairbanks, AK 99711
Phone: 488-9366
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351.
LEE PUTMAN, President
Ketchikan Sports Wildlife Club
6005 Roosevelt Dr.
Ketchikan, AK 99901
Phone: 225-7694
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HJR 40 and
offered suggestions for HB 351.
GEORGE CHIPMAN
Box 8990
Ketchikan, AK 99901
Phone: 225-8180
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351.
BILL GILLAM
Box 221
Glennallen, AK 99588
Phone: 822-3658
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351.
EDWARD KNOEBEL
Box 84
Glennallen, AK 99588
Phone: 822-3208
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
NORM STUARD
P.O. Box 497
Soldotna, AK 99669
Phone: 262-1705
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
RUSS MORRISON
P.O. Box 4623
Soldotna, AK 99669
Phone: 262-7536
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
ROGER ROTHSCHILD
P.O. Box 213
Bethel, AK 99559
Phone: 543-5478
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
commented on HJR 40
WAYNE HORINE
P.O. Box 10249
Fairbanks, AK 99701
Phone: 488-3250
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
MARC FARRINGTON
3734 Aune Ct.
North Pole, AK 99705
Phone: 488-8307
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351
MARK CHRYSON, State Field Coordinator
Gun Owners of America
2140 Wolverine Circle
Wasilla, AK 99654
Phone: 376-8285
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HJR 40 and
offered an amendment to HB 351.
ROY W. WHITE
PO Box 105
Palmer, AK 99645
Phone: 746-3006
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
GENE OTTENSTROER
P.O. Box 1059
Delta Junction, AK 99737
Phone: 895-4805
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
BERNARD GOODNO
P.O. Box 92
Delta Junction, AK 99737
Phone: 895-4000
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351.
JOHN HANDELAND
Box 295
Nome, AK 99762
Phone: 443-2486
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351.
TOM WALKER, Chief of Police
P.O. Box 167
Seward, AK 99664
Phone: 224-3338
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 351 and
HJR 40.
VALERIE MAXWELL
P.O. Box 3701
Seward, AK 99664
Phone: 224-8689
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
PATRICK JOHNSON
54540 E. End Rd.
Homer, AK 99603
Phone: 235-6656
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
WARREN TROY
P.O. Box 3376
Homer, AK 99603
Phone: Not given.
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
DANIEL J. CAMPBELL
P.O. Box 3304
Valdez, AK 99686
Phone: 835-3304
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
MARK L. CRADDUK
P.O. Box 1808
Valdez, AK 99686
Phone: 835-2492
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
JOHN R. OLSEN
Box 1135
Petersburg, AK 99833
Phone: 772-3405
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
BENJAMIN SHERBURNE
24807 Teal Loop
Chugiak, AK 99567
Phone: 688-0102
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
SYLVAN MORGAN, JR.
9806 Dinaaka Dr.
Eagle River, AK 99577
Phone: 696-5302
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
DEBORAH SMITH, Executive Director
Alaska Mental Health Board
431 N. Franklin #101
Juneau, AK 99801
Phone: 465-3071
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered suggestions to HB 351.
LEONARD ABEL
Division of Mental Health & Developmental Disabilities
Department of Health and Social Services
326 4th St. #1002J
Juneau, AK 99801
Phone: 465-3370
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered suggestions to HB 351.
REXENE OLSON
P.O. Box 1448
Kodiak, AK 99615
Phone: 486-4101
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
MIKE MILLIGAN
S.R. 9121
Kodiak, AK 99615
Phone: 487-4402
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
against HJR 40.
CASEY WHEELER
2668 Scotch Pine
North Pole, AK 99705
Phone: 488-2064
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
BYRON M. NASH
2200 Persinger Dr.
North Pole, AK 99705
Phone: 488-6310
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351.
SCOTT CORYELL
P.O. Box 1044
Ward Cove, AK 99901
Phone: 247-2494
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
ANDREA JACOBSON
15 Wood Rd. Stg.
Ketchikan, AK 99901
Phone: 225-5934
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 351.
JIM JENCKES
616 Maple
Kenai, AK 99611
Phone: 283-5244
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351.
MARLENE MEYER
P.O. Box 935
Sterling, AK 99672
Phone: 262-9346
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
RICHARD MITCHELL
P.O. Box 990
Delta Junction, AK 99737
Phone: 895-5008
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
PAT MCKEEN
P.O. Box 151
Delta Junction, AK 99737
Phone: 895-1057
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
AUSTIN MAHALKEY
Box 455
Glennallen, AK 99588
Phone: 822-3613
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
DOUG SWEET
1941 Hilling Ave.
Fairbanks, AK 99709
Phone: 456-8856
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
CLARENCE BAYSINGER
P.O. Box 96
Nenana, AK 99760
Phone: 832-1006
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
PHU LE WHITE
P.O. Box 105
Palmer, AK 99645
Phone: 746-3006
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
GERALD ANDERSON
HC30 Box 5342J
Wasilla, AK 99687
Phone: 373-4080
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351.
ALBERT SORENSEN
38675 Yukon Ave.
Homer, AK 99603
Phone: 235-4867
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HJR 40 and
opposed HB 351.
BEAVER BENTLEY
41955 Spencer Dr.
Homer, AK 99603
Phone: 235-7389
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
CRAIG D. SANDLER, Deputy Director & Retired Chief of Police
Law Enforcement Activities
National Rifle Association
1600 Rhode Island Ave.
Washington, D.C. 20036
Phone: 703-883-9553
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
GARY LUDWIG
1210 W. 15th Ave.
Anchorage, AK 99501
Phone: 278-1400
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351
and HJR 40.
CHRIS SULLIVAN
4155 McLean Place
Anchorage, AK 99504
Phone: 337-3075
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 351 and
HJR 40.
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 351
SHORT TITLE: PERMIT TO CARRY CONCEALED WEAPONS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) JAMES,Bunde,Olberg,Sanders
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/07/94 2019 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/10/94 2019 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/10/94 2020 (H) STATE AFFAIRS,JUDICIARY,FINANCE
01/12/94 2043 (H) COSPONSOR(S): SANDERS
01/22/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
01/22/94 (H) MINUTE(STA)
02/12/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
BILL: HJR 40
SHORT TITLE: RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) SANDERS,Olberg,Green,Kott
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
04/13/93 1178 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
04/13/93 1178 (H) STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY
04/20/93 1387 (H) CORRECTION TO ORIGINAL SPONSORS:
04/20/93 1387 (H) SANDERS, OLBERG
04/22/93 1449 (H) COSPONSOR(S): GREEN
05/01/93 1641 (H) COSPONSOR(S): KOTT
01/18/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
01/18/94 (H) MINUTE(STA)
01/29/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
01/29/94 (H) MINUTE(STA)
02/12/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-12, SIDE A
Number 000
HB 351 - PERMIT TO CARRY CONCEALED WEAPONS
HJR 40 - RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS
CHAIR AL VEZEY called the meeting to order at 8:02 a.m.
Members present at the call to order were REPRESENTATIVES
PETE KOTT, JERRY SANDERS, GARY DAVIS, HARLEY OLBERG and FRAN
ULMER. REPRESENTATIVE BETTYE DAVIS was absent. Anchorage,
Barrow, Bethel, Cordova, Delta Junction, Fairbanks,
Glennallen, Homer, Kodiak, Ketchikan, Mat-Su, Nome,
Petersburg, Seward, Kenai/Soldotna, and Valdez were on-line
teleconference sites. CHAIR VEZEY announced public
testimony would be taken on both HB 351 and HJR 40
simultaneously.
Teleconference testimony began with Kodiak.
Number 089
GIOVANNI TALLINO, PRESIDENT, KODIAK ARMED SPORTSMEN
ASSOCIATION, testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40.
Carrying weapons in the open is disrupting and not
practical. He viewed law enforcement as a reactive, rather
than proactive force.
CHARLES SMITH testified in favor of HB 351. He felt the
open presence of firearms in public places produces a state
of paranoia. He also believed police should not be regarded
as bodyguards.
Number 188
CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Barrow teleconference site.
GILBERT CROSS testified in support of HB 351 and HJR 40. He
emphasized most criminal acts take place outside of the
home, thereby, carrying weapons outside for protection would
be useful. MR. CROSS questioned if page 3, line 16,
prohibiting individuals with substance abuse records from
obtaining a permit, could include a time limit. He felt
individuals convicted of this sort of crime in their youth
may be law abiding citizens now and would like to apply for
a permit.
Number 225
CHAIR VEZEY answered the latest amendments to HB 351 have
deleted misdemeanors and only felony violations would
prohibit an individual from obtaining a permit.
Number 234
MR. CROSS reiterated the occurrence of crimes outside the
home and wished for protection against attackers.
Number 243
DOUG SOMERS testified in favor of HB 351. Throughout the
country, he noticed "there has never been a private citizen
armed to stop some of the carnage going on." HB 351 is a
common sense issue.
Number 255
CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Ketchikan teleconference site.
Number 268
LEE PUTMAN, PRESIDENT, KETCHIKAN SPORTS WILDLIFE CLUB,
testified in favor of HJR 40 and offered amendments to HB
351. The directors of the Ketchikan Sports Wildlife Club
felt HB 351 should be amended to assimilate the approach of
CSSB 237.
Number 284
GEORGE CHIPMAN testified in favor of HB 351. He believed
police currently act in an investigative manner and not as a
deterrence. "Deterrent police protection is now an
oxymoron." He felt if President Clinton were to put
firearms into the hands of 100,000 private citizens instead
of police, the national debt would decrease and the crime
rate would decrease. MR. CHIPMAN urged for a quick passage
of HB 351.
Number 310
CHAIR VEZEY announced the House State Affairs Committee has
received more than 200 public opinion messages (POMs) from
Fairbanks alone, and 1,000-2,000 POMs statewide in favor of
HB 351. He also noted HJR 40 has received approximately six
letters a day in favor of it, with only three or four
letters in opposition. He then continued testimony with the
Glennallen teleconference site.
Number 325
BILL GILLAM testified in favor of HB 351. He reminded the
committee that shoulder holsters are difficult to put over
large heavy parkas in the winter. Being from a small
community, MR. GILLAM stated there are few police, with an
area that's spread out to patrol, which makes for inadequate
protection.
Number 340
EDWARD KNOEBEL testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40. He
questioned if the permits should have fingerprints on them.
He also wondered if the fine of $25 dollars for not having a
permit, could be reversed with the $125 fee to obtain a
permit.
Number 350
CHAIR VEZEY responded the subcommittee to HB 351 has
addressed those issues. Testimony continued with
Kenai/Soldotna.
Number 362
NORM STUARD testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40. He
noted other states, such as Florida, which have passed
firearm carrying laws have had a decrease in their crime
rates. Primarily in Florida, vehicles with out-of-state
plates are more prone to criminal activities due to the
premise they may be without concealed weapons permits. MR.
STUARD suggested the fees for permits should be similar to
Washington; $5 dollars for five years. He believes $125 for
three years is prohibitive.
Number 400
CHAIR VEZEY replied the latest amendments to HB 351 revise
the permit fee to $100 for five years.
Number 407
RUSS MORRISON testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40.
Number 411
CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Bethel teleconference site.
Number 419
ROGER ROTHSCHILD testified in favor of HB 351. He noted
since the 1978 handgun ban in Washington D.C., the murder
rate has increased 200 percent, while the population has
decreased 20 percent. MR. ROTHSCHILD cited the following
statistics from the U.S. Department of Justice, Borough of
Justice Statistics, National Institute for Justice
Victimization. "70 percent of all violent crimes are
committed by six percent of all criminals. Thirty five
states and 128 localities are under court orders to release
criminals to our streets. Two out of three released
criminals will be arrested again within 36 months. More
than half are released while awaiting trial, of those 20
percent escaped, 16 percent commit another crime while
released. For every 100 serious crimes committed, only five
criminals go to prison, where they serve an average of one
third of their sentence. The result, five out of six
Americans will be victims of violent crime, or attempted
violent crime,..." MR. ROTHSCHILD noted Weiner v.
Metropolitan Police Transportation Authority in New York
City. In this case, the court stated the city was not
obligated to provide protection to individuals. Warren v.
District of Columbia, 1981, the court ruled under sovereign
immunity no government agency is required to private
protection. MR. ROTHSCHILD cited these cases to prove the
need for personal protection.
Number 465
CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Fairbanks teleconference site.
Number 467
WAYNE HORINE testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40. He
felt these bills would not provide a "wild west atmosphere"
in Alaska.
Number 476
MARC FARRINGTON testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40. He
referred to the 2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution to
establish the public's right to bear arms. He felt with HB
351, he would better be able to protect his family and make
Alaska a safer place to live.
CHAIR VEZEY asked each teleconference site to send a list of
individuals who wished to testify and also the written
testimony of those who will not be able to. Mat-Su
teleconference site continued the testimony.
Number 495
MARK CHRYSON, STATE FIELD COORDINATOR, GUN OWNERS OF
AMERICA, asked CHAIR VEZEY if HB 351 and HJR 40 would pass
out of the committee today.
Number 499
CHAIR VEZEY replied passing HB 351 and HJR 40 was possible
because a quorum was present, however, the subcommittee for
HB 351 may want to make additional changes after hearing the
testimony. His intent was to finalize the changes on
Monday, hear HB 351 again on Tuesday for a technical review,
and possibly pass it out of committee then.
Number 504
MR. CHRYSON questioned page 3, line 19 of HB 351, regarding
the use of an individual's social security number. He
reminded the committee of a lawsuit the state lost when they
required a social security number from an individual. He
felt this conflict could be avoided by eliminating this part
of HB 351.
CHAIR VEZEY clarified, the latest amendments to HB 351, no
longer include the social security number requirement. A
valid picture I.D., such as a driver's license, is now
required.
Number 524
ROY W. WHITE, licensed psychotherapist, testified in favor
of HB 351 and HJR 40. He spoke specifically to the
perceived law enforcement resistance on some parts of HB
351. "The law enforcement perspection often is distorted as
to the validity of citizen arms carried, because of the
distorted sample with which the law enforcement individuals
come into contact." MR. WHITE stated "2.4 million U.S.
citizens deter crime annually by the use of a firearm. This
also can be verbal reference to the firearm or the mere
presentation of the firearm. This indicates that the police
department come only in contact with those people where the
situation has deteriorated to a shooting. So it does give a
distorted view of what the capabilities of the American
public are, in terms of the view of law enforcement." MR.
WHITE addressed the issue of concealed carry versus open
carry and pointed out that with open carry particularly, if
the victim is a female or an elderly person, a mugger or
criminal-intent person will immediately notice and attempt
to neutralize the weapon. MR. WHITE stated he thinks it's
imperative that a person has the right to carry their own
protection and carry it in a concealed manner.
Number 555
CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Delta Junction teleconference site.
Number 558
GENE OTTENSTROER testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40.
He asked the committee what the term "concealed weapons"
included in types of weapons.
Number 562
CHAIR VEZEY answered that by statutory definition, a
concealed weapon includes everything but an ordinary pocket
knife.
Number 564
MR. OTTENSTOER asked if that statute was a means of taking
guns away from the public?
Number 570
CHAIR VEZEY believed the statute has been effective for
about 30 years.
Number 584
BERNARD GOODNO testified in favor of HB 351. He believed
the screening process would be effective to weed out
undesirable individuals who apply for the permit. He
stated, "Florida has issued 180,000 concealed carry permits
and has only revoked eight."
Number 607
CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Nome teleconference site.
Number 607
JOHN HANDELAND testified in favor of HB 351. He believed
that in his line of work, a handgun carried openly would
attract attention and may cause more confrontation than by
allowing a weapon to be concealed. Individuals should be
registered so police may know who is carrying firearms. He
was concerned about the restrictions in AS 18.65.755 because
smaller communities have several buildings which house state
or federal as well as public offices. If this provision was
enacted, he felt buildings should be properly marked to
inform individuals of buildings where firearms are
prohibited. MR. HANDELAND did like the training aspect of
HB 351. He emphasized AS 18.65.770 would propose a problem
by not allowing municipalities to determine specific gun
prohibited areas. He asked if AS 18.65.770 was addressing
the qualification to hold a firearm or where it may not be
possessed. In Nome, for example, carrying a gun into a
tavern or bar is prohibited.
Number 656
CHAIR VEZEY responded MR. HANDELAND's concerns had been
addressed by the subcommittee and they are still under
debate. Testimony continued in Seward.
Number 660
TOM WALKER, SEWARD CHIEF OF POLICE, testified in opposition
to HB 351 and HJR 40. MR. WALKER questioned how firearm
competency could be shown before issuing a license. The
psychological stress for a private citizen when carrying or
shooting a firearm will also be difficult to judge. He
noted the constant training that officers undergo to learn
how to shoot at the proper time, and voiced his concern
about private citizens responding inappropriately and
shooting irresponsibly. With HJR 40, he questioned how
people who are mentally incompetent, convicted felons, or
intoxicated will be controlled with an unlimited right to
bear arms.
Number 680
VALERIE MAXWELL testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40. As
a victim of rape, having also been trained in firearm use,
she felt no one could properly be prepared for a life
threatening situation. She did, however, feel a firearm
would have been a help to her in her situation.
TAPE 94-12, SIDE B
Number 000
CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Homer teleconference site.
PATRICK JOHNSON, a 13-year hunter education instructor and
3-year personal protection instructor, testified in favor of
HB 351 and HJR 40. MR. JOHNSON questioned the qualification
courses required in HB 351. He felt people should be
educated in what their rights really are and what problems
they may encounter. A hunter education course would only
provide the safety aspect, not the legal aspects. He also
questioned the permit fees of HB 351.
CHAIR VEZEY asked MR. JOHNSON to be more specific about his
question of fees.
Number 076
MR. JOHNSON felt the fees were too high. Single women
raising a family may not have the funds available to buy a
permit. He knew background checks cost more money, but felt
the renewal fee should be less.
Number 094
WARREN TROY testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40. He
believed the police should aid in public peace, not hinder
it.
Number 134
CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Valdez teleconference site.
DANIEL JAMES CAMPBELL testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR
40. He referred to a man in Anchorage who successfully
defended his wife by killing his perpetrator with a 380
automatic when he was abducted at an ATM machine. Four out
of four police officers he has spoken with in Valdez support
HB 351. He does not believe it should be easy to obtain a
gun and a screening process should be required. After
moving to Alaska 10 years ago, he tried to request a permit
for a handgun. He felt the police were intimidating and
ill-mannered. In response to his request for a permit, the
police chief replied, "We don't have concealed weapons
permits, if you can't carry your gun out in the open, you
don't need to be carrying it at all." Carrying a concealed
weapon license should be a privilege like driver's and
hunting licenses.
Number 242
MARK L. CRADDUCK testified in support of HB 351 and HJR 40.
He felt that in a time of social restriction, HB 351 and HJR
40 would set an example and encourage other people
throughout the nation to stand up for their rights.
Number 256
CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Petersburg teleconference site.
JOHN OLSON testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40. He is a
NRA member and instructor.
Number 278
CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Anchorage teleconference site.
(REPRESENTATIVE KOTT left the room at 8:55 a.m.)
BENJAMIN SHERBURNE testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40.
MR. SHERBURNE cited JUSTICE HUGO BLACK in reference to the
Bill of Rights, "It is my belief that there are absolutes in
our Bill of Rights, and that they were put there on purpose
by men who knew what words meant. And they meant their
prohibitions to be absolutes." HB 351 would reaffirm (our)
rights. He did not agree with the breakdown of the fees,
believing $100 was too high for a renewal.
Number 330
SYLVAN MORGAN, PRESIDENT, ALASKA COMPETITIVE SHOOTERS
ORGANIZATION and PROGRAM COORDINATOR, ALASKA RIFLE CLUB,
testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40. He believed
American citizens are responsible and will be able to handle
carrying concealed firearms.
Number 371
CHAIR VEZEY moved back to Juneau for testimony.
Number 375
DEBORAH SMITH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ALASKA MENTAL HEALTH
BOARD, testified in opposition to Section 18.65.705(4),
qualifications to obtain a permit, in HB 351. The
department remains neutral on the rest of the bill. Section
18.65.705(4) presumes an "antiquated state" for those who
are suffering from a mental illness. HB 351 presumes anyone
committed, voluntarily or involuntarily, to a treatment
facility, is capable of violent action. MS. SMITH believed
this is not true. Being mentally ill is not a criminal
offense. HB 351 could be revised to not discriminate
against the mentally ill. Those committed voluntarily and
involuntarily could be separated. HB 351 may limit the
number of people seeking treatment voluntarily because of
the stigma which will be connected to it. MS. SMITH pointed
out the five year waiting period for the mentally ill to
obtain a permit would not be feasible. After such a long
time, a doctor could no longer advise if an individual was
of sound mind. She would like to work with the subcommittee
to make HB 351 more plausible.
Number 438
LEONARD ABEL, DIVISION OF MENTAL HEALTH AND DEVELOPMENTAL
DISABILITIES, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES,
stated his department was neutral on HB 351. Their concerns
mainly deal with mental illness and substance abuse. He
noted the requirement for a clean state of mind from a
psychiatrist would not always be viable, because the
majority of people are seen by clinical psychologists or
social workers. With substance abuse, most are treated by
certified substance abuse counselors. MR. ABEL believed
there would be a problem in relying on individuals to
disclose all past treatment. There is also a difference
between controllable and curable illnesses. Manic
depression due to a polar disorder or schizophrenia can be
controlled, but not cured. Situational depression because
of life stresses can be cured. In controllable illnesses no
one can say if the illness is gone. Stating mental illness
is a disability may conflict with the Americans For
Disabilities Act.
CHAIR VEZEY commented "He would like to see the day when the
U.S. government sued the State of Alaska for not its'
citizens carry a weapon; that would be a most unique event".
REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG wanted to know MR. ABEL's affiliation.
Number 486
MR. ABEL repeated he was with the DIVISION OF MENTAL HEALTH
AND DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND
SOCIAL SERVICES.
Number 490
REPRESENTATIVE OLBERG asked what percentage of the mentally
ill population was MR. ABEL referring to.
MR. ABEL replied approximately one percent of the population
will have schizophrenia at some point in their life, about a
third of one percent will have bipolar disorder at some
point in their life, in Alaska this amounts to about 5,500
people.
Number 497
REPRESENTATIVE ULMER asked for an estimate of the substance
abuse population and who would certify a person had been
alcohol free for three years immediately preceeding the
application. She noted people who are cited for driving
under the influence voluntarily seek alcohol treatment
programs to save their jobs, etc.
Number 507
MR. ABEL said substance abuse was not his area of expertise,
but he believed roughly nine percent of the population
nationwide will have a substance abuse problem. A certified
substance abuse counselor with the Division of Alcohol and
Drug Abuse would do the majority of the treatment, and would
be more likely to certify the patients health than a
psychologist.
Number 517
CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Kodiak teleconference site.
Number 522
REXENE OLSON, KODIAK ISLAND SPORTSMEN ASSOCIATION and KODIAK
ISLAND NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION GRASSROOTS, testified in
favor of HB 351 and HJR 40. She does not believe her role
in life is to be a victim and she wants to be able to
protect herself. She recently discussed HB 351 with a
policeman and he stated after hearing the testimony, he
realized honest citizens could be a help to the police
force, instead of just putting more guns on the street.
Number 543
MIKE MILLIGAN testified in favor of HB 351 and against HJR
40. He referred to the Brady Bill and how he believed it
disenfranchised women. He referred to his trip to East St.
Louis and how all of the store operators wore handguns. He
noticed this presence and observed the lack of violence in
the area. People should be allowed the autonomy to protect
themselves in a violent situation. MR. MILLIGAN opposed HJR
40 where "private state or political subdivision of the
state" is included. He noted the need to pass ordinances to
protect school campuses in different areas. He noted his
local health center as an example of a place which needs to
have the carriage of firearms prohibited.
Number 605
CHAIR VEZEY moved to the North Pole teleconference site.
Number 606
CASEY WHEELER testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40. He
felt if he was qualified to fight for his country, he should
be qualified to carry a concealed weapon. To save money, he
offered the suggestion that military personnel release their
background checks because they have already been done.
Number 620
BYRON NASH testified in favor of HB 351. He believed police
were reactive, not proactive. The best defense against
armed psychopaths is armed citizens. Criminals are already
armed and people should be able to even the odds. He
emphasized the state should reexamine the administrative
costs and lower the fees.
Number 637
CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Ketchikan teleconference site.
Number 640
SCOTT CORYELL testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40. He
believed HB 351 would give the people the right to defend
themselves. Being a deckhand, he liked the provision which
prevents individuals from carrying weapons on the Alaska
state ferry system.
Number 653
ANDREA JACOBSON, police officer in Ketchikan, testified
against HB 351. She had two reasons: 1) HB 351 is
unnecessary, as citizens can already carry weapons openly
and protect themselves; and 2) a police officer's job would
be much more dangerous because after honest, responsible
citizens may be approved for concealed carriage permits,
they can still get drunk and take drugs which vary their
usual personality.
Number 682
CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Bethel teleconference site.
ROGER ROTHSCHILD testified HJR 40 would strengthen the 2nd
Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
Number 688
CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Kenai/Soldotna teleconference site.
JIM JENCKES testified in support of HB 351. He believed
citizens are responsible enough to carry arms, as proven in
readings from the National Rifle Association.
TAPE 94-13, SIDE B
Number 000
MR. JENCKES continued his testimony with a dislike for the
high fees and noted AS 18.65.755 was too restrictive by not
allowing the firearms in certain buildings.
Number 034
MARLENE MEYER testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40. As a
woman, she felt a concealed weapon would be the only way to
effectively protect herself. She expressed the fees were
too high. MS. MEYER quoted, "All it takes for the forces of
evil to rule this world is for enough good people to do
nothing."
Number 063
CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Delta Junction teleconference site.
Number 068
RICHARD MITCHELL testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40.
He emphasized, as he is often outdoors, applying a firearm
holster on top of his clothing, could be quite difficult.
He also felt the fees were too high.
Number 101
PAT MCKEEN, veteran, testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR
40. He believed, due to the "new world order", the
government will attempt to take away all of the firearms
from the public. In a state of repression, he stated, the
government is wary of the public taking up arms.
CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Glennallen teleconference site.
Number 145
AUSTIN MAHALKEY testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40. He
asked for only a one time fee to receive a permit, unless
otherwise revoked.
CHAIR VEZEY reminded the teleconference sites REPRESENTATIVE
JEANNETTE JAMES is the sponsor of HB 351.
Number 158
EDWARD KNOEBEL questioned page 4, line 15 of HB 351, and
wanted to know if the National Guard and the State Guard
would qualify under this provision. He is retired from the
Navy and is currently the 1st Sergeant for the 2nd Air
Commander of the State Guard.
CHAIR VEZEY replied firearm proficiency from the Armed
Forces would qualify as proficient in firearms in HB 351.
Testimony continued with the Fairbanks teleconference site.
DOUG SWEET testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40. He
noted the shortage of Alaska State Troopers in Fairbanks and
the large area they must cover.
Number 198
CLARENCE BAYSINGER testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40.
He believed HJR 40 would strengthen the original intentions
of our founding fathers to protect the public from an
overbearing government. He also felt citizens should be
responsible for themselves.
Number 228
CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Mat-Su teleconference site.
PHU LE WHITE testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40. She
has participated in NRA training and she would to be able to
protect herself as a woman.
(REPRESENTATIVE KOTT returned to the meeting at 9:45)
Number 250
GERALD ANDERSON, former marine and policeman, testified in
favor of HB 351. MR. ANDERSON cited "Vermont has no
restrictions, any kind of gun restrictions, and they have
one of lowest crime rates in the nation." He stated Arizona
is in the process of enacting the same law as HB 351 in
Alaska. He asked the committee if they could recall a case
where a policeman had been robbed or a policewoman had been
raped. Because of the rarity of these situations, he
believed the people should be allowed to carry weapons. "An
unarmed nation, is a weak nation," stated MR. ANDERSON.
Number 281
CHAIR VEZEY moved to the Homer teleconference site.
Number 287
ALBERT SORENSEN testified in favor of HJR 40 and against HB
351. MR. SORENSEN noted Article 6 and the 2nd Amendment of
the U.S. Constitution to argue against HB 351. These
sections provide wording which makes HB 351 unnecessary.
Article 1, Section 19 of the Alaska State Constitution,
right to bear arms, was another example. Article 7, Section
9 of the Alaska State Constitution he stated, makes the
provisions of the Constitution self-executing whenever
possible. AS 11.61.220, as being amended by HB 351, would
be in conflict with both the U.S. and Alaska Constitution.
He believed HB 351 would infringe on the rights of honest
citizens and AS 11.61.220 would be invalid.
(REPRESENTATIVE ULMER left the meeting at 9:50)
Number 330
BEAVER BENTLEY testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40. MR.
BENTLEY stated the Long Island train shooting incident,
which happened two weeks ago, could have been of much less
severity if one of the individuals aboard had a license for
a concealed weapon. He also reminded the committee of an
incident in Texas where a man crashed his truck into a
restaurant and came out shooting with two guns. One woman
in the restaurant, he said, commented if she only had her
gun on her, and not in the car, she would have been able to
stop the man within three of his shots.
Number 347
CHAIR VEZEY moved to an offnet teleconference site in
Virginia for a witness asked to testify by REPRESENTATIVE
JEANNETTE JAMES.
Number 354
CRAIG D. SANDLAR, DIRECTOR OF LAW ENFORCEMENT ACTIVITIES,
NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION and RETIRED CHIEF OF POLICE,
testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40. He stated, even
with the thousands of permits he has issued, the murder rate
in his community has continued to decrease. The people
applying for permits are not the same people who are
committing the crimes. He emphasized when the 1987
concealed weapons law was passed in Florida, it received the
same criticism. Florida has experienced a 21 percent
decrease in homicides over five years.
Number 380
CHAIR VEZEY stated the committee has expressed their support
for HB 351 and they are working on it very hard to make it a
good. Areas such as permit fees, local determination,
mental health and substance abuse will still be addressed.
Testimony continued with the Anchorage teleconference site.
Number 404
GARY LUDWIG testified in favor of HB 351 and HJR 40, with
minor exceptions. HB 351 needs to address nonviolent
felons, such as those who miss child support payments, in a
different category than violent felons. Fingerprinting may
be substituted with a "read only memory strip" on a driver's
license which indicates an individual's criminal record.
This record could be installed on the cards for a fee. Gun
Owners of America has legislation out on the "read only
memory strip."
Number 437
CHAIR VEZEY pointed out not paying child support is only a
violation, not a felony. Fingerprinting has been
eliminated, reducing the cost to the Department of Public
Safety in processing the application.
Number 445
REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS commented to MR. LUDWIG that a bill
was introduced on February 12 that refers to driver's
licenses on gun bills. REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS noted MR.
LUDWIG's phone number and informed him he would be
personally contacted with the bill number when it is read
across the floor.
Number 452
CHRIS SULLIVAN testified in favor HB 351 and HJR 40. He
asked REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS for a copy of the bill he
mentioned. MR. SULLIVAN realized the danger police are in
everyday on the streets, and expressed he would notify them
of his firearm if required to do so.
Number 464
ADJOURNMENT
CHAIR VEZEY terminated the teleconference and encouraged
written testimony. Hearing no more business before the
committee, CHAIR VEZEY adjourned the meeting at 10:02 a.m.
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
The Subcommittee on the Alaska Railroad will meet in Room
102, February 12, 1994, at 1 p.m.
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